Comments on: HOW LONG DOES THE REBELLION LAST?

By: Craig Seganti

Craig Seganti — Sun, 17 May 2009 16:21:11 +0000

Yes, use any means at your disposal to get the atmosphere you want–I volunteer to new teachers to have them send their disruptive students to my class all the time (2 max per class!) This is a great way to not worry about getting flack from admin., send them with the work or the rules to copy.

Craig

By: Daniel

Daniel — Sun, 17 May 2009 04:24:58 +0000

To JAD,
Ask around amongst the kids as to who they think the “meanest” teacher at the school is. Once you have a name, go see him/her and find out how they are making discipline work in your particular school and get any pointers/tips he or she may have for you. Once he/she hears your plight, the invitation of “Oh yeah? send ‘em to me” might be offered so that at least your worst 1-2 kids can be sent out of the classroom to a very undesirable place other than what sounds like a jellyfish Admin (as in “spineless”).

By: LAnewbiebutgoodie

LAnewbiebutgoodie — Wed, 15 Apr 2009 22:37:55 +0000

Hang in there.
1.I do remember that when I had students copy a note to their parents on misbehavior (keep two or three laminated copies, make them make their own copies), it did seem to help.
2.Make sure that if you do send a student out of the room, they have WORK to do. And don’t let them back in till it is done! This is HUGE. Have them outline notes, copy out the lesson objectives and then the end of chapter summary.(and tell admin that this will help them know what to study)…..anything that feels like ‘work’.
3.Just leaving is often what they WANT to do. It is more fun to walk to the office than stay and sit there. So leaving has to feel WORSE THAN STAYING!!…….that is the KEY right there. Remember, the punishment needs to feel less fun (more work) than staying. Keep this in mind……..to a child, It’s fun to walk to the office! It’s fun to not have to take notes for ten minutes! It is fun to disrupt and get the other kids off track and have you yelling and paying attention to THEM! Hmmmm…..is it fun if every time i do it, I gotta copy the study summary? and the class rules? and get a note signed by the principal and Dad? Maybe not. Read the earlier post on the time out note! It was pretty good.
4.Ask a teacher nearby if naughty students can sit (back turned so they don’t get attention) in the back of their room and copy notes. You can let them send kids to your room to…..a swap. Then Find an old grammar book from a friend, a library sale, or your language dept, they always keep old books around somewhere……..regardless of YOUR subject, admin always loves when teachers help teach grammar. Make them copy lessons or do practice lessons out of the old book. Our language rules don’t change much! It is tedious enough to make your lesson seem more fun. Admin will love you because your punishment is educational. They will love you even more for arranging to let the student be in another class or worst case sit with back turned in your own class……because you are not another teacher newbie filling their chairs with problems.
I only learned some of this my last few weeks of the year.
5Better late than never. You are the boss, and you can change your brand of ‘law enforcement’ at any time. Tell that to the kids too! Show a copy of the note and rules to the kids. Wave the grammar book under their nose…….and tell them that you can’t wait to help them learn grammar EACH TIME THEY CHOOSE TO MESS UP! Make sure you do it! and collect it! stick it in the student folder with the note…….the note does not have to be about a missed detention…..make them write a note as soon as they disrupt class. Maybe half the class is doing grammar notes for a week. It won’t last too long.
6 And as soon as the kid has a good day, by gosh praise him! Thank him quietly at the end of a lesson if he listened. Tell him you are proud he chose to do something good! Tell him it is so wonderful he chose to learn something! Keep stickers around for elementary level……..a gold star on his folder goes a long way.

One last tip—- many many kids have a talent. something they love. Band, sports, cheering. If anyone shows up in class with a sports jersey or an instrument, or you know they have music class every Friday…..talk to the coaches or music, art, library or technology teachers. THEY have influence too, and might even team up to make the kid copy rules during THEIR class, which was supposed to be fun. If you extend your realm of influence to take away fun from another period, recess, elective……..believe me they will moan, groan, and beg. suddenly you have power to affect something they want. Keep a straight face and let them get mad and beg……it means you are winning!!! You got information….that ‘leverage’ the author talks about. Once you find something they resent getting taken away, use that class to enforce your own. If parents or admin complain, explain that if little Billie is complaining about losing this class or recess, all he needs to do is CHOOSE to behave and he gets his privilege back. Stay that course for a couple weeks. Best thing yet……Billie runs around to his friends and moans how mean you were……….that word of mouth just convinced his friends that maybe behaving in your class is better. Get him complaining….it’s free ‘rules advertising’ for you!!!!

I hope this helps you and anyone out there. And i plan to reread it on my next lousy day.

By: Wintersville

Wintersville — Wed, 15 Apr 2009 06:04:40 +0000

I worked in a middle school in a gang-infested area, teaching 8th grade special education students–16 of them–back to back for 4 periods. 55% were ELL’s as well, and 5 of them had a horrible discipline record since 6th grade. That was my first year teaching and I didn’t get an aide until December. I never did get the hang of being able to control the group and put in for a transfer in December of that year. However, I observed one of my colleagues who had the same students for two periods. Her methods resembled Classroom Discipline 101, though she did not indicate she was following that method and she did not have the list of rules Craig uses. From the time the students went into her room, you could hear a pin drop. Everyone was quiet and on task. Few dared to not complete their homework, a regular infraction in my room. They were hassled for not completing homework. None of the students wanted this teacher to get in their face. One 6th grade student who I threatened to send to her classroom for misbehavior actually broke down and started crying, begging me not to send him to this teacher’s room because he would get “yelled at.”

Though the students were afraid of this teacher, they respected her and never had an unkind word to say about her. She found a balance between firm and swift discipline and letting the kids know she loved them. She also used humor a lot. This teacher had many years of experience behind her working with this age group and high school students.

She never sent students to the office–she didn’t need to. She had everyone under control from the get-go. She may have had trouble in the beginning with this group of 8th graders when they were in 6th grade, but she nipped those behaviors in the bud early on and enjoyed the fruits of her labor two years later.

Administration frowns on teachers who send students to them often, which is one of the reasons I didn’t pass probation. I would suggest teachers not put themselves in a precarious position with administrators and find other ways to “suspend” a student from their class. This ideal teacher suggested I use her room as a suspension room, and that worked very well. I liked the idea of having them sit outside my room, but administration didn’t allow that either. Another method I used that was suggested by the ideal teacher was to set up “private offices” in my room. These are desks placed in corners either facing forward or facing the wall, but definitely segregated from the rest of the group. Some were near cabinet doors that could swing open and really become a “private office space.” One office space was behind my chart holder. That worked well to contain 3 roudy students; but towards the end of the year, I ran out of “offices” to contain my all the unruly students. It became a musical chairs game, and everyone was happy to have a “private office space.” Another method I used was to keep a running record of misbehaviors that would ordinarily warrant being sent to the office on a referral slip. I could get a week’s worth of offenses on those forms (8-/2 x 11), and then send the student up after a “last straw” offense. This cut down on the number of referrals to the office and presented a disciplinary pattern over time for a student. I also kept track of offenses on 3 x 5 cards and reviewed the offenses with parents at conference times, or called home when I had several offenses to report. Calling home every day for every offense was more work than I wanted to do. By the end of the year 3 of the 5 problem students were finallly expelled from school–something that should have happened before they ever made it to 8th grade. Oddly, they weren’t expelled for their horrendous behavior in my room, but for other deeds done on campus in their general education classes.

The bottom line is to hang in there, have a tight discipline policy that will not overburden the administration, document everything, develop a presence so that students will fear you, have a sense of humor, and tell the kids you love them and that you are there for them. I think this must be the recipe that will work. It’s not enough to be a hard-nosed disciplinarian. The kids have to like you or respect you and they have to be successful in the work you have them do; otherwise, they will give up and believe they can’t pass your class no matter what they do. The first year will be rough, but subsequent years will get better as you fine tune your approach and word gets around school that you are a MPT.

By: mgarceau

mgarceau — Sat, 11 Apr 2009 14:09:46 +0000

Private schools have the same issues as public, only because the students’ parents pay tuition you have a whole community of parents who believe that they are your boss – as well as the principals’. My best suggestion is a colleague to whom you can send out of line students. Send them with work to do. My colleague has a very orderly classroom and students do not like being sent there from my room. Our school is “into” responsive classroom philosophy – ie adults jumping through hoops for unacceptable behavior of children who know better. Good luck.

By: yoohoowinston

yoohoowinston — Sat, 04 Apr 2009 02:51:58 +0000

PLEASE…PLEASE…some advice on what to do when you do not have the support of the adminstrative staff. I do send student’s to the office with referrals and I am careful to word the referral using “buzz” words for the school’s system code of conduct handbook (defiance, willful acts of disobedience, disruptive behavior, interfers with instruction). Rarely, are they suspended and most often return to my classroom within less than 10 minutes…to only repeat the same behaviors.

I have held parent conferences, made students “sit-out” for recess, implemented a token economy (school store)….nothing seems to be working.

I am also in the process of applying to the private schools in my area and take a pay cut for peace of mind. I teach in a low-income, inner-city school. I have discussed these issues with my principal and have asked for recommendations for professional development. She suggested I attend Ruby Payne Conference.

I would appreciate any advice or suggestions any one has. I am drowning and beginning to feel like I have failed as a teacher.

By: theteach

theteach — Mon, 08 Dec 2008 10:08:36 +0000

Implementing this sounds great, but I am going to lose days of instruction if I keep calling a student or group of students back to the door everytime he/they disrupts. I have students that will turn this into a game. What happens to the students that have complied while I am dealing with these other students? Do I have them just read the lesson on their own and begin work? I need to teach them. At what point do you say “this is enough” and begin implementing other measures?

By: admin

admin — Sat, 11 Oct 2008 23:40:54 +0000

Open defiance is always a reason for immediately removing a student from class. As said in the book, all students must know it is going to happen, and that they are going to receive detention and/or copying of the rules and not reenter class until that is done.

How can you teach a student who refuses to do what you say? If an administrator balks on this, I ask them if they then expect to work with teachers who openly defy school policy, or can we just be counseled over and over.

How does the class ‘pick on you’ ? The second any student says something not related to subject content they should face an immediate consequence. You must simply have a consequence EVERY time for every unwanted action.

I don’t believe in ever letting the school’s allowing whatever student on campus to be my problem; either they will behave in my class and comply with the rules and consequences or they will be removed. Our role as teachers is not to be the buffers for society’s problems but to educate.

If you do become an administrator allow teachers to use the book and facilitate the policies and your school will run smoothly!

By: JAD

JAD — Sat, 11 Oct 2008 13:35:21 +0000

I just switched out from teaching rebellious, low-skilled sophomores to seniors (our senior English teacher quit two weeks ago and left us in a bind). I was asked to take over her program, with two caveats – one, I travel all day, and am in a different classroom each period; two, I had to take over her Creative Writing classes, which are really elective dumping grounds for kids of all grade levels and abilities.

Ensuring that my supplies and materials are in order is one thing – my colleagues are pretty gracious about letting me use the board and overhead – but it’s the seniors’ open defiance, and trying to find enough time to write the detention slips for their rudeness – that’s killing me. It’s only been seven days, but already I’m getting the open bets on how long I’ll last. I have my rules and consequences clearly posted in my syllabus (and copied my consequences after every other faculty member’s list), and I have been trying technique after technique that is suggested in the 101 book, but I’ve found that they work only on a one-one student-teacher basis, with nobody else in the room – a detriment, when half of the class literally picks on me. For what? For merely getting my kids and directing them (firmly, but fairly) to complete the warmup exercise!

The school is a college prep charter high school, but the kids’ skills and behavior are anything but. (Except for the Honors students.) The “need to form a relationship with the kids” is stressed so much that it turns my stomach. Yet we must bend over backwards to get ready for accreditation, while we allow kids who should be suspended or kicked out to remain on campus. We have no dean for discipline, and no school phones to call home except in the tiny office (where everyone hearts everything). I get some sympathy from the administration, but that’s about it.

The school has one year to turn around the low test scores, or it will close. It also has the unenviable reputation of firing teachers who try to work with the kids but have high failure percentages (because the kids fool around rather than try to work).

Good thing that I am pursuing my Administrative Credential. I realize that I may have to be the one to issue the sympathy and suggestions to another teacher down the road, but I am ready to trade my copies of Shakespeare and do some real paperwork for awhile.

Any suggestions from other high school teachers who face similar issues?

By: John Wilson

John Wilson — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 11:05:53 +0000

My experience is that as a new teacher I got many more discipline problems in my first few weeks. I still get problems of the same kind at the beginning of a new trimestre, for around two weeks. The learners are testing you to see what your limits are, but it is you that sets the parameters.

The answer is to do what Craig advises. You have to be pre-emtive and make the rules clear. Single out the ringleaders and the rest of the class will soon follow suit for cooperation. There will be confrontations. Keep your cool. Under no circumstances show emotion. Any infractions must get instant retribution.

You will find that, over time these classes will become compliant and even respect you for your ability to control a situation.

John